WSF Round Table Meeting

Speaker 1: National democracy, Coalition for Democracy and Development, Civil Society Organisations and Comprehensive Democracy and Network Institute for Global Democracy on behalf of all these organisations I welcome you all, for evaluation and conclusion at the WSF Mumbai. This is a great event that has taken place in just few countries, and today we are meeting to those evaluations of what ........... and where do we go from here, that is the kind of scenario that we have come here and I welcome you all, you have come and taken off your time here. I just to organise the whole meeting properly I would suggest that Meena and Subhash should be the ................. of this meeting elect and all that. And we expect that all of you should contribute and must give your opinions and advices that where do we go from here apart from doing the evaluation of WSF we also should try doing project for the future and to begin with I would request respected Dhirubhai to initiate the discussion with reflections on WSF with reflections on Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam on the whole issue. And Ruby will be another one, these two positions will be put up and after that you will be requested to contribute your opinion. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (Dheerubhai): Thank you Abhi, I don't want to begin with my reflections, I would like to hear other voices also but I would like to ................ (not clear) because when a candidate exercise then lots of things could be felt and still many things will remain unfair so its important that we are able to focus and show vital issues. Because there are many angles, this was a multi-faceted event, so its very difficult to take up something and ignore other things, but for convenience I would say that there are 3 or 4 aspects, work what you may cause evaluationary or where has been arrived from where we begun, this whole process of social forum to be seen from its........ (not clear)some (not clear). To look at social forum as a process and a movement, where it is going and in which direction. One point on which we .................. could reflect. Second, particularly the event here in Mumbai, India are, whereas some new dimensions it seems have emerged which enough for ..................... There are something which the editor agree to and some other kind of windsetter happens, so focus on Mumbai if you like which should not ignore the other Mumbai. Some of you may be aware that when there was something called Mumbai-Resistance I think its part of the larger movement (not clear) in Mumbai is concerned there are 2 or 3 things. One is organisation, its very important because that's a means by which you achieve your zeal. Thus, I would like to keep that seperate, so there are several organisational achievements and many organisational problems, concepts and all that which we should discuss as a seperate issue so that the whole sessions is not talked into discussing organisation. organisation is important but more important is how far this, event has been moving, has Bombay given a kind of boost legitimacy for some degree of greater solidarity and otherwise. How has Bombay, not bombay, Mumbai done to WSF ? Thirdly, I think we should focus on what some unconsciously so some critical what we may perceive as negative element which should be avoided and so that this process can acquire a greater stand and focus, I think this is very important and to be selfish, particularly what were they are saying which were counter, which were given offensive to the spirit and values of what we think WSF is and ought to be, so that this could be avoided in future. These are broad issues I thought which we must focus while we are discussing. From my part I would like to point out I had participated in one WSF in 2002 in Porto-Rico and this is 2nd for me. Lots of things could be said in terms of organisation which I would avoid, those are some friends whom I saw here, there are concepts which are cultural. So, I would not focus on but I think two things, this event is described as a carnival, mela, kumbh of movements and NGO's as something that I personally believe or I thought it was all this but also something different and the difference was that every celebrative, demonstrative, critical projection that different groups made, every small event within this larger event had a focus, a matter, had a massage and had a strong effective way of communication, so that why I personally would not like to describe this as just as a mela or a carnival which it was, I don't say it was not that but whatever melas and carnivals including kumbh one has attended, there was a kind of a what you may call a prism. Something all these different rays and different inputs were received, communication received is broadly in a direction, something quite different and that's why if there are some processing mechanism of an advanced technology one could really translate all these messages in a more ........ way than they appeared. So, I think according to me there was a degree of common ideological communication coherence in all the different things that happened that's how I personally differ to, that's why I want to balance it that yes it is a carnival type because everywhere like in America, Indians also try to convert every event into a celebration, if its elections, a protest, whatever it is, people dance beat drums. But here the message is manning in a certain direction, that's how I would like to put. I will state a very general level I don't go into them. Second impression which I thought negating in my mind was that the painting or a perception or a iconisation however you put it of anything. Who are the people we are protesting against, what are the portraits, whom are we communicating, who are these to whom these messages are addressed, what message is here when addressed to each other. Not as a solidarity making process but I mean the things that about which one wants to strategise, when one wants to influence global policy whatever they are and wherever they...................... Those who want to, these are the people whom we want to add and what should be the strategies of democratising global governance and deepening democracy globally and doing something to global cine society, what it is and this sort of more concrete analytical programatic process or suggestion has not yet emerged. We say this is a forum a platform and therefore we are not going to have resolutions, that is one thing but at the same time there should be some non-party political global process which can lead to a direction towards which we want this movement and enforce policies and people, and that needs to be garner more effectively for the future for which there are one or two suggestions. I think there are 2 aspects of this event, one you may call is software and hardware kind of, I think the Disco dialogues, communications, diagnosis, analytical process all these discussions about ............... all that, that kind of event a conference should probably take place every year. it's demonstrative dimensions are what you may call, more greater effort is on Disco Politics how things are defined, broadly you may call the intellectual aspect and the larger kumbh should be every three year that's my suggestion. Kumbh is a big cultural, religious, social mela which is taking place from 2-3 centuries in India. We have Ardh Kumbh, full kumbh, so I think the major event should be every three year, there should be social forum Asian, European every year and WSF every three year because lots of pre-occupation and energy is spent on groups in just preparing for it. So, lots of money & energy in the preparation rather than the actual output, so I think that is my one suggestion in terms of that we have regular forum every year and every 3 year a WSF where the intellectual and the event and political aspect could be more creatively synthesised as far as possible. The second impression that I got I am talking about my first conduct to whom we are addressing I think there was overly focused quick fix, about who are we addressing and therefore it became easy to point, project, iconise enemy or only one nation state of the world and of that nation state one individual and that is your George Bush of USA. I think there is a truth in it that the ................... which represents what you may call evil aspects of globalisation are not all focussed in one nation state and one person, the large collaborative part or people and processes which are inter-related in their larger thing is that all according to me there has been a new powerful, vocal, articulate class what I call as the metropolitan global. Metropolitans of the world it could be in India, in Africa and plus the most rich and powerful militarily and economically power 6 to 8 countries like C-8 how you call it, there is a larger combination which has some internal contradiction & internal competition who will get the better part of Iraq cake and all that may be there but its a larger part of a metropolitan global structure or power and ideology and institutional enforcement without legitimacy which we are addressing to but this focus on one Bush and one America is infact is misleading according to me and too narrow in those terms doesn't allow us to really focus on the larger solicit ............. which also be point of discussion and people may not agree but I really believe demonising of single enemy is not just misleading reflecting but counter productive that's how I look at this. What is that structure, what are the ways because metropolitan global is India, is in Africa, its in Latin America and its everywhere which support and legitimise Bush and other Power. It's not so important. I suppose that's why I would like to emphasise analytical diagnostic processes because the power structure that has emerged in the ideology globally and capitalist what you call I think global capitalism in most of the discussions here were seen as the reproduction or extension of the nation-state capitalism. Something different is that today imperial capital situation today is dominating the world is not like the old nation-state like structure quite different. In short I would like to say that we have to do a lot in terms of understanding the nature of global capitalism it's not an extension of what one was doing in nation-state.

Speaker 3: Many would like to say something Dheerubhai also talked about in his first point, for me this is WS Forum No.4. You quite heavily busy with what is going on and what is different is that I think it's a very different Forum from the Porto-Rico and I think its given a lot of room for reflection on how future Forums could be operated and what is necessary to reflect upon I mean one big difference everybody has noticed was who was governing the Forum, where were the masses of the people and interestingly enough they were not with big names as sometimes you could see that, that's very different from Penrto-Rico, I think there's a message in that I think there's a certain kind of participation. The richness of the Forum bringing all these people together to learn from each other and discuss and give the floor and hear, it's not fully being exploited and it's not enabled. I think its very important to think about it how could it be different, how could we really have interactions in the Forum, which we of course have to do democratising the Forum, transparency all kinds of things. So, with this we very directly wound up with what kind of message can the Forum give outside like what we want in the forum we want to facilitate dialogue coming together, strengthen and then show to the outside that is not right what you are. How to do that is something that the forum very much has to work upon because it's not yet exactly very clear there are no mechanism to facilitate that I was just thinking that in this forum, it's just a personal thought that it was interesting to try to marry .............. and there's a very good idea about it I think that it could be started earlier this idea we could be knowing that you could be finding more with whom you could be working together, north and south translating each other's work into languages you could understand then you might have in which there would be people from many different levels working in many different places working together towards trying to get a common plan. I think its not exactly how it could be achieved but I think it's very important to think about those things. So I think it was really very funny because everybody said the forum has to go global and yes the forum has to go to India and we have to learn a lot from it I have to say I somehow had thought about that but what would that be an idea about that. So, there's a lot to be learned. Now, let's go back to Peurto-Pico I don't know what's going to happen with it, I hope some other discussion comes out.

Speaker 1: The chair has suggested to request all of you, it would be nice idea to give a quick introduction of all of us so that we know that who we are. Shall we request to do a quick introduction of just their name and where are they from and which organisation, that will probably be easier for us to relate.

Speaker 2: My name is Dheerubhai I work at CSDS, Delhi. I've been also with Lokayan I've done a management co-ordinating centre if you like. I edit a journal called Alternatives.

Speaker 3: I am Ruby, I am Dutch half Indian and with NITT.

Speaker 4: I'll introduce myself Pendharkar.

Speaker 5: My name is Raghuvor Dugiya, I work with Herbal Research Centre, Bangalore, involved with Central Social Studies, Bangalore. Lot's of other groups. I have two quick ........... one is regarding the program itself in grounds, I think I congratulate the organising committee and other for organising this into a wonderful event. But I felt discussion at larger hall and larger seminar could have been more effective, I felt workshops are more communicative and audiable the meeting place and the water available could have been more hygienic. When we have to come and talk of larger process I think a clear agenda from this social forum to the next social forum at Indian level could which could translate inter district and state level. I think it's very important because when we organise District Social Forum in Karnataka, it became good opportunity for all of us at district level whether it's the trade union NGOs or other people. We come together and start dialoguing a fresh. So in terms of clear cut agenda I think should be (not clear).

Speaker 6: My name is Spirit I am from ................... I am an anthropologist. I am not with any organisation. In a way I am very good at domination of NGOs in the foreign countries because in a way it spoke for sheer power and how that power is invading governments as well as NGOs and it's very indirect and I think in same sense truly ever ........ ....... by the kind hypocrisy here as well as many beautiful things in meetings but tremendous hypocrisy here, I mean working with tribal people I am sure (not clear). Thousands of tribal people to come here and should dance in their fantastic dances, but I think the confusion here, that more than anything here not atleast not in the costumes I mean there are such contradictions here and I feel the split between the MR 4 and WSF (not clear).

Speaker: I will make just two short points about the event I would like to draw if any body of you have read an analysis I am forgetting the name of the person who did the analysis of European Social Forum and he says that on first day there should be brainstorming and then the working groups must be formed in addition to discussing in seminars etc. By the end of the event these working groups should be able to present whatever they decided and for the next agenda that was what he says because otherwise it remains a talkshop, that's a very good document actually I made a brief of that and particularly published it in a newspaper, the newspaper I was attached in a very late stage the first issue was a very good attempt but after that it went to some shop of journalism in Bombay they didn't know what kind of event is here and that's almost a failure. So in next concert we will have to take care that all editorial responsibilities remain with all us we have lots of people experienced in journalism so that we can highlight the real issues in our newspapers and things can go further.

Speaker 7: (translated in English) I am Bhuvan Pathak from Himalayas and I have two big observations, one is that I have not seen such a huge wastage of cloth and paper in my life one should be careful about that and that second is that I was totally confused about whom do we disagree with, who was the one who........... but ultimately we didn't have who we had what. What do we disagree about and finally such kind of a big event did provide and kind of a consolidation of it.

Speaker: What do we disagree about like that, what meant and he tried that the division of the world views, perspectives, and lifestyles and now decorating ............ of people in the WSF and the other about which we disagree, what is that if you try to inter from this it's difficult to index what is the index of differences between us and the people whom we oppose. There is that overlap between those who oppose and what is being opposed and i think we need a better clarity between these two. Second point, the focus on Bush and America is in fact privileging and empowering one man and one country in fact there are other things, that kind of a focus we make them larger than they are.

Speaker 8: My name is Panishankar. i work in orissa and belong to Orissa, living in tribal region and since last 10 yrs. we are fighting Baunite mining. Dissapointed by the news of rape and some people said that the whole WSF ground created or presented such a permissive kind of a culture that some people said that hotel was not required for committing the rape. The second one is that the various people who are participating to create a better world and they are putting up struggles in their areas what were their roles, what were their perspective, what was their understanding should have been made known to all of them. Confused about the cultural gap among the aspirants and makers of the other world through Social Forum I mean the same kind of cultural gap which you find between the first world and the third world you find in the normal global context is sort of foul or partially reproduced within Social Forum I think the challenge he says making new world another world is to bridge the cultural gap the Forum is its among the protesters, among the members, among the participants of the Social Forum. The world Social Forum has to create bridge the gap and create a new culture of people and move onto make the other world possible. There was not much difference if that difference remains the third world people will be left out.

Speaker 9: I totally agree with what Ruby said and there were good comments about humanising just one country or one person or whatever that was a good point and what Veeruji also said about having more emphasis on the regional meetings I think that's very good.

Speaker 10: I am V kohirvella from Finland from Vasudhaiva kuumbakam and some other organisations. I wish to thank Indian friends for organising things here and I am quite pleased with everything, but the major problem with I feel is very deep problem and very difficult I think is that hypocrisy, the major issue in hypocrisy is the way social organisations, seminars even demonstrations all they are some western ways in organising your life and organising what you are doing and this hypocrisy is strongly felt for example, there might be somebody who is really in need and comes to beg from us through even beggars can be cheat one doesn't know who is who but this is the only way to participat though they all lie to these kind of happen they just come to beg from us and I think if we try to represent them whatever seminars we will built whatever marxist will be built there is some thing we are not really representing them because inside their social extension, social life there is not such thing happening ever like seminar so much, give this declaration and that declaration which one would you like to be better, you can have whatever you will, nothing for them but I don't know which would be the way to evercome this kind of a problem. If we use very much money to fly from different parts of the world to meet at one place it's a very difficult thing that so much money is wasted and in this respect I think Veerubhai's idea to have more concentrate annually on regional seminars would be better there would be connections. The major problem I think is very difficult to encounter what we should do, should we just start to make a Global Social Forum that we come to the slums, the slums of Mumbai and start to visit their people and may be we have some translators and start to discuss with them.

Speaker 11: I am Maria from Finland and I also like to idea of not having WSF every year and for concrete proposal if the Forum can serve us promote ongoing campaigns and so on I think it could be a good thing to focus on one issue or one theme, discussions about AIDS if we could have many of these short and working groups during the same day in the same space that it could be to get to know people for a dialogue and secondly if we are discussing if be could have a message for the outside world, all the organisations and people in this WSF present. I think its very difficult to have a very detail proposals for the outside world from the whole group because there are also problems with the democratic decision who we are representing and so on, I think its a very difficult thing. Those people on the street. I would like to see them there because I was sulking with like many of these Indian people from the countryside and they said that it was very important for them to meet people from other parts, so I think it was very this important for them.

Speaker 12: My name is Narendra and I am involved with Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam, Delhi. one single thing which most touched me, stressed me, held me was the sheer energy, so many people for a limited duration from very diverse backgrounds and logically, experienclly and otherwise representing so many streams of thinking, aspirations all of them together and the sheer energy was so touching. There were some deficiencies here and there certainly admitted, but that didn't touch me so much, the sheer energetic collecting all together from diverse background and this is very important for us to concern and Veerubhai was saying 3 years, 1 year whatever. And as to it's being channelised I think it only needs some assistance let's not say there will be a pre-drawn blueprint, where to take this energy it will move by itself because it has got together by itself by and large and this energy. I sort of felt its transmission to the common person on the street, the chaiwallah - the guy who gave me tea, the bus conductor, the auto guy, some students who just saw my bag and they asked me what's happening and etc. and I found the response was really very good.

Speaker 12: Inspite of all the pitfall and all the deficiencies, wear and tear both organisational and otherwise splendid things have happened and sure should keep happening.

Speaker 13: My name is Kaiwara and I am also coming from Finland and I have been information to ......... Finland, National Spheres also and the Foundation concert. it's the first time for me to come to India. WSF I am very pleased I have work here in India I am satisfied with the connections I've been able to get from that work and for our own interests here so personally I have been very satisfied and I have reached forward with most of the things I had interest for and in general the richness, the diversity on the streets in national grounds was astonishing and it was very promising of course there are things which might have been done better and things that must be done better, if this we have in continuation I am not sure whether this idea of having just every third year can carry with the same face, it's fair O.K. but I also suppose getting this kind of cultural plurality to grow up in regional meetings might not be that easy, this kind of diversity is very-very important. Just think if there's an European meeting can it be carrying this kind of richness in itself. We can see yuears for this kind of gathering where all the general groups and other types of modern sub-cultures can be represented at the same time. I don't know if it's need or good thing to wait for that long time. The other point, the problem, I also - there became a discussion where we refer to things that have been taking up and I am not clearing my mind there has been some other ideas. If I could have been taking up if I had been thinking ready in advance. In preparing stage I have the same problem that was taking up, many different groups have been providing the same subjects, same things and close the relating things, so if these preparations could be done a bit better so I was taking part in some meeting, which did not exist, I had a program and went there was no one practically and the organisers had been disappeared to other things may be more interesting for them, it was loss of energy and in some occasion we could still have a known meeting together with people who were not organising these meeting that was very good also. But still I think this preparing work, I also understand very well how difficult it is, so the time limit to announce all these ideas for meetings should be earlier on this preparing work should be done better then we could reach may be deeper. And then these collaborations, these partners, these groups that are organising something similar or close to similar themes that could be a learning process, but we have to be in a learning process, we have to be in a situation where groups working with some themes would be really in connection to each other.

Speaker 14: Because this meeting is for your big reflection, because we have finished Global Meeting yesterday only and you can definitely say your positive points, negative points and your suggestions.

Speaker 15: My name is Karli Gotha I am from England basically I am from the same organisation he mentioned already Seimenpuu Foundation which is a minor funding organisation in the field of environment questions related to NGO's and Civil Society groups when coming here I hope there will be also critical discussion among organisations and their role and their possibilities to make the world a better place, to make another world possible but it seems that. I should have taken the initiative myself in order to get that type of discussion so I was relying on other inputs on that. Generally related to atmosphere there was energy, there was diversity and what impressed me a lot was that, that big amount of people were gathering in that small area I saw a couple of minor aggressive acts but usually when thousands of people coming together which ever people, there is some kind of visible aggressiveness but that was lacking completely or may be I was in a wrong place.

Speaker 16: My name is Lin and I am from Finland from me this was social really a great experience and I think I met here people I wouldn't have met otherwise but anyway the WSF has limitations, thereby cant represent the anti-globalisation and world movement in the world, what problem is that it doesn't have a democratic structure and representation is very limited or the social background, regional representation also gender background, in this meeting I counted over 50 people but less than 10 females so we will have to consider this also and also the political representation I find limited i felt this is mainly dominated by the other unleft and many significant groups of the anti-globalisation movement is missing one group is, the one that during last 5 year really stronging in Europe, US and Australia, there are many young people who try and earn ways of doing politics in the actions, do work, decentralise without hearing our case and direct action and civil disobedience and these groups have been real important in Seattle etc. and also locally there have been lots of who reclaimed the street happenings and house occupations for transforming the different buildings the social centres, occupation of the military bases and direct actions against big corporations and the embassies and things like this and I think this is the part of the movement that is missing here. So I really feel that the WSF represent the whole anti-globalisation movement and some people here.

Speaker 17: I am Sri Balakrishna Rao from Hyderabad I am from the Socialist Front. What I think has been the biggest jamboree for intellectual discussion in this decade and most people have came here to hear the other point of view at the Forum whether it was left who organised it. We can not go into the merits but given a chance it was in the nature of more of complaining in the seminars and debates and some forums are not totally representative for eg. formers and growth were not representative though there was big representatives of farmers from European countries and France. The subject was not properly printed so that missed it so eventually I came to know the farmers were described in the program was over either it's important subject was sustainable development which many people would look forward to attending and that was also not to be. So the tent was practically banned, imagine sustainable development is a very essential subject for a backward countries like India. There should also be a follow in the near future and this forum only consisted of criticising the authorities in all the parts of the world but they have not given any solution, we think of concrete solutions for eg. I have attended quite a number of seminars which work for poor women, men in tribal groups, men in formal groups, tribals and other different classes but none of the participants have said the banks are not financing the poor deprived classes the non-formal people. The suggestion didn't come at all, so finance is the main thing lending to the poor people, developing people is the main issue where there can be economic growth. So this forum, forum like this are only about economic growth of the people and improving the standard of living. So in future we have to think and set the time table accordingly for discussion.

Speaker 18: Hi ! everybody I am Yoni from Finland in this WSF I have represented I organisations Finish Youth Coperation Alliance which is another organisation for all the Youth Organisations in Finland and Finnish Association for National Conservation. This was my first Social Forum and somehow I expected, what I expected when I saw this happening I expected discussions where somehow the gurus or the big names of the movement would be sitting under the tree together with us, others and with international and national and also tribal and rural participants of this event and discussing we would have first learned about the issues and then sort of solutions somehow to fill up the ideas further may be this expectation was totally wrong because I saw very little of this kind of ideas of work which I thought was essential part of WSF. WSF was more like a huge fair, of course I am not denying I learned a lot I saw a lot and there is a lot which I can take back to Finland but anyway, may be its necessary like this and especially I talked to some Indians and I've learned that this has been very important to carry some rural movement in India to see how much work is done worldwide on issues and I think if this WSF empowered the local movements and elsewhere in country, in the world in Africa, in South America, in Europe then it was difinitely worth all the effort, worth all the trouble but nevertheless I sometimes found for myself the level of discussions the quality of discussions just lower than what I have expected but I want to stress it was definitely worth organising.

Speaker 19: My name is ........................................... from Kenya I work with Green .................. an environmental organisation and this is my first social forum to attend I haven't attended the previous ones but this was a great learning for me and specially the experience from how Asian Community participated because (disturbance). What I want to say that perhaps in future I am saying this in a literal eccentric manner because the way we dealed/performed in Africa. Africa was not actually felt in this forum and this is a shame, there are a lot of issues that one affecting Africa that should have come to this Forum but they didn't come so I think in future the Social Forum should perhaps concentrate in strengthening the regional chapters or groupings, so that when we come up the group of forum at least there is a voice that is one not hearing voices from different areas and voices from other areas are not heard because that's the only way we can make a global or allowed forum when all of us are being heard all our issues are being heard. i am saying this being bitter because rather than Africans here coming to bring our issues we are sort of fighting one another because we had not believed in what out, what in from the beginning and I think this is a great rally I have not seen this before but I know it happens when people are not together and be good to international forum and then they start fighting and there are issues and not heard and therefore they go back home ....... they came and therefore I am hoping that this is the issue that is going to be taken and another thing I realise is that and so many people talk about that here is that there things to be retro-connection between the people who came here and other bigger people you could see like there were two groups, one of those who were demonstrating marching and beating drugs and other's in the tent in the workshops so I didn't really see the connection between the tents and the demonstrations and I think that was very-very vital it's not that the workshops were not planned, they were, the programs were so elaborate, good and had so many things but that connection which was actually very vital lacked in a way, perhaps in future we need to put that connection so that people who are beating the drums, marching, and doing all these things get that connection between them and other people who are in the tents and their likes. Thanks.

Speaker 20: I am ................................ from Finland (disturbance) environmental development. As I had stayed for a longer time in India I felt somehow co-responsible for the practical arrangements at the WSF and I was very happily surprised that everything went so smooth I was expecting them to go very smoothly and finally but this was magnificent I haven't heard any complaints from anyone I think everything was just fine, all the practical arrangements and on the content side I was mostly to the little workshops from 100-200 people and I thought them most rewarding these small groups where people could genuinely talk to each other and share opinions and so on. So may be these big seminars and events with thousand's of people where you can't really have so much discussion or connection with the others and with the bigger seminars I was also disappointed that there were so many male speakers there and I find that quite uninteresting if there are for example 5 men and 1 female, so that's pretty much not so interesting but I think well, Indian organisers have done very big job and wow ! I can just say wow ! Thank you.

Speaker 21: Appreciation was really very good.

Speaker 22: My name is Marko .......... I came also from Finland like other people here active with Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam and the Coalition for environment and development and more. Somehow I have been anticipating and preparing all these things 2000 & 2001 some of the friends from India, Brazil and Finland and I think this has been successful, the kind of expectations I've had but I also understand that many others with different expectations have a good taste for .......... reflections. If we think of the WSF now ahead I think this debate that there were several dimensions on the roads that the WSF should take and that's there's one condition that was very clear here is between this idea of space and of women's coming together and forming some kind of big united front and if you think what happened here in the preparatory processes, I think the preparatory process in India must have been much richer than what has been the case in Brazil that in Brazil 7 groups are organising in and in Brazil the political groupings around ...... has been a dominant one but here around 4 different things have been identified one associates with CPM, another one with CPI, another one with Socialist and fourth one with the NGO's and in the preparatory process which have been observing here in India since October, there was some kind of dynamics of competitions the way section or group in the other groups like child rights and womens corps. and sort and so in a way it was quite nice that everybody made sure that their issues and their perspectives and also their people are there. And this brought about the kind of variety that we saw on the side but then again this, it wasn't all that conclusive for the coming together but I think still working together and being together there's an impact and you can be an a different levels personal level, level of idea, level of expression and also there was space for those who wanted to come together form our platforms I think that's happening, happening all the time and it would be bushing ahead to think that all can now unite in a single force that even if there are small groups come together uniting then that's also an achievement and one this kind of unity I was particularly interested was with political parties that was part of the process which brought greens from Europe to meet greens in India and also observing the Socialist doing the same and I think (disturbance) position in parties formally they are not even somehow welcomed but in practice parties are beating Brazil and more than 3 parties here are the basic structure which somehow keeps the process going and bring in a kind of .......... that we have seen. So, in future I would be interested in having more discussions of this and also more kind of honesty or may be or something that parties are essential and parties are cultural part of this and the intention of including them in the chart is of course no party would dominate but then they will be more creative and more honest ways of doing it. So, basically Indian Organising Committee did tremendous work and we were comfortable and also could do what wanted to do here so I am satisfied.

Speaker 23: I am Julliane from Canada. I was one of the ...................WSF, this is my first one and my first time in India too and I am really satisfied with my week, it was a really good week and it's fun because I know some people working on the same subject but in different countries separately and we met them this week and we decided to make a group to workout together, so it's a very good thing and Thank you.

Speaker 24: Hello, I am Kia, I was doing in WSF co-ordination, I've been incharge of the stalls all the free stalls, we had 617 stalls which was mostly from different organisations from all over the world, there were 18 countries represented. I think the most important issues in different unions were represented very well. There's need to be a very, there's ground roots organisations that are working and doing a great work on the ground and I think they need to have venture connection, allow that more between all these groups and to ferry ride to mass movements on it and after all these mass movements related to all the intellectual speeches and seminars that we have, there will be kind of balance between these two things, as other people said earlier. I think the idea of putting the Forum little bit like every 2 or 3 years would be an interesting idea to look at because there needs to be a building of national areas especially for Asia, America, Europe to grow up the networks together to be chalked out stronger networks and then after combine them together to be able to do something interesting and to have a power also because right now the market is having the sink. We need to have the sink thing, social movements that will come together and able to have right power. Thank you.

Speaker 25: I am ......................................... from Finland also like many of us, and I've also been here volunteering one week before WSF so I know something before hand but I didn't have any kind of expectations but now I am more than satisfied, little bit mined feelings specially after the last day. yesterday I felt like little bit, not that energetic that day before I may be suspect to have more and more bigger demonstrations and closing ceremony with all people gathering together and the field was not that crowded that I expected and I feel people were quite tired and I don't know, may be it would have been better to have one more day with discussions, may be atleast I was more comfortable with them and one thing I would also like to say we should focus more on really building those international networks, really like doing practical things and now I have some visiting cards I have some connections and I am happy with them but I think more kind of .......... could be allowed here and more proposals, more concrete proposals to really go to alternatives we are building here, that's something which should be developed more.

Speaker 26: My name is Marko Kangas from Finland also, and I was also volunteering here one week before WSF for Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam. I had a very good week and the best thing for me for this week was 'people', people from India and people from other countries also and it was really interesting because i didn't feel so good there was so much discussion about democracy and dialogue and the main place I saw it was the food court, not the seminars, not the workshops. There were some workshops, seminars that there were quite democratic feeling and also dialogue but very few. And I really think that we should discuss that it's very western way they are like big names and they are giving speeches but how we can really have a dialogue, not just speeches, one speech, one speech, one speech but real dialogue and democratic way to like discuss. Atleast now we have democracy because everybody can say something but that didn't happen much in WSF and that's I didn't feel that good. So, we also have thing about methods, is this the right way or is there some other methods we can create dialogues and democracy, because if we can do it here how we can think we can achieve it in the global world. We should create it first right here. But it was a good week, so thank you.

Speaker 27: I am Rani Basera from South Asia Study Centre and my experience of WSF whatever workshops and seminars I joined, i think what my friend said there was a lack of democracy, although WSF started as a voice of different but in the workshops the alternate view was not promoted, one of my question went un-answered that we are working with informal groups like NGO's and what is the accountability of these NGO's, social as well as political accountability of these NGO's towards whom they are accountable to the funding agency or to the people they are working with, this was the question that went unanswered and other question which have impartial criticism that was jettison, I think this is not a good thing.

Speaker 28: I am Rajendra, from India itself and I am associated with Student World Assembly about WSF, it was a really great organisation of such different societies from the world to discuss a lot of issues, but the question of solutions I feel if we could not have resolved, come to the conclusion of the solution it will be like a discussion on Kashmir issue, therefore, I would be satisfied if we discuss some of the solutions for the different issues that we have discussed in WSF.

Speaker 29: My name is Atroy Danis and I am a French, i am the President of the World Citizen Foundation, which is a small organisation promoting world citizenship and world democracy and I was in the Ist WSF and I think I have a small positive and a big negative. The small positive is that at the first WSF there were 2 organisations or 2 seminars promoting global democracy, it was organised by Network Institute for Global Democratisation one of them and the other one by us the World Citizen Foundation in this forum there were 15-18 seminars promoting the idea of world democracy or world parliament or world constitution and so forth. So, this idea of global democracy has made a lot of progress from the beginning to now but now, but I think the problem is that we still have at the level of organisers we still have the ideology which my view is much to nationalistic, it what we call neo-nationalistic and unfortunately I know where it comes from, it comes fortunately from my fellow French intellectuals who are very strongly involved in creating this forum and I know many them I know them personally, so I know this, and that's why we also don't focus so much on proposing alternatives instead we always complaint, complaint, complaint we don't propose alternative scenario. Now we say another world is possible, we should say what other world, what are the criteria of this other world and secondly how do we create it. So, if we focus on that now for four years we will just try to get a message across, that it's possible to have another world. I think we should start thinking about persuading out the criteria what kind of world, very simple big principles and then how do we impliment it, so when Dheerubhai started about the software, i think one of the software tools that we need in this forum and we should focus on for the next one of propose is 'scenario-planning'. If we do scenario-planning we will show this world today is one scenario, and in no global seniors have to organise the world, but lets try to focus on showing a few other scenarios and not may be only one because we won't even agree on one, but lets focus on five-six or ten scenarios how we could organise the world alternatively, lest we did that public opinion first of all would have some kind of real substance to sink their minds in and also the media could not caterise so much over bunch of left over hippies just protesting, so this would be my proposal that we focus on the scenarios and we get in a way also scenarios for the, when i say organising the world for the architecture for the political architecture of the world, we focus much to much on economic architecture. IMF is bad ................ is bad, yes, but who controls them, we should focus on global political architecture, the power structure, the power structure of the world which is based on the nation-states, on nationalism, on diplomacy on war, it's all one big system, one big seamless system and we really have to think how do we overturn that system based on humans, because humans do not exist in the global political system which you might think is very strong but it's true. Humans do not exist in the international system, Human beings, only states exist, so I think as a basic principle we should focus on re-designing, re-engineering the global architecture based on human rights and humanity of all. Thank you.

Speaker 30: (In Hindi) Bhupendra Rawat. (Translation in English by another speaker)

Congratulation to all, that it was a big Kumbh Mela, in India the Kumbh mela takes place in 12 years but for the first time in independent history we are feeling this solidarity of people from 123 countries, consolidating into WSF, what are the alternatives not taken in a good spirit at different levels and different smaller meetings. A kind of feeling of 'gundas' bullies, people bullying going there to smaller meetings and just saying hello or hi, and then coming back withdrawing themselves.

[Mr. Rajendra Rawat took education in Delhi, that is about the sewer lines in Delhi, the housing problems in Delhi]. have learned the process and have come out with an alternative. This process of alternative wasn't tasted in this meeting. The people were loyal to their own groups, there was grouping on the housing problems and they have not been properly reflected as was tried to reflect. Both NGO's and non-Govt. organisations were promoting their shops of socialism, may be they were loyal to their own money they are getting from funding agencies. Couldn't interact with the people at the participatory level, so want to know what are the different countries where the alternatives have been thought by the people about water problems, the alternatives for the housing problems, the alternatives for the good safety on the road problems. Express solidarity to this family as well as the WSF. There's nothing about alternatives. Opposed things but have created some alternatives in Delhi, in this big thing there's no alternative and other thing is that there's no kind of accommodation like if there's a issue of Iraq or in some other tent people may be discussing about the operation of the Filipin people, so only in that tent people who are together just drop in and say hi and bye and go, and other thing there was no effort of linking issues, like we never if the housing problem is also in Brazil or in India, so people facing similar problems can come together and discuss issues, it was missing.

Speaker 31: My name is Sudhir Chand, I am a scholar, when I came to this meeting i thought there will be precious little to say but now that there are so many people I thought I would like to say something in support of atleast 2 persons on my right and on my left because that's the dominant feeling with which I am learning this forum. The gentlemen on my right has used the world hypocrisy and Dheerubhai preferred to used the term contradiction or some such word. I want to actually I want to explicate this as quickly as I can.

Speaker 1: The contradiction which I have noticed I am not offending this long meeting of Helsinki Process. The burden of the entire meeting was on the globalisation is there with us. The very next day there was a discussion on Gandhi and in that discussion the very people who were saying globalisation is there with us were talking of alternatives. I am not suggesting that there's hypocrisy among those people may be there's a kind of spot-blindness, unawareness of the kind of contradiction that resides within themselves within the organisation. But it seems to be that it's important for us to see as do where we stand, is it a genuine contradiction within our position which we are unaware or are there are larger consideration which make us blind in these contradictions. A larger consideration I need not illustrate. You all understand what I mean by larger consideration and I very much know these are not those extremeous larger considerations monetary material considerations which are responsible for these contradictions, but rather these are genuine contradictions of which we are not aware or these are contradictions that we have not point resolved within ourselves but if the world social forum is for an alternative world, we will have to ask some very serious some very basic question, including the question of funding, including the question of how consciously and unconsciously that big funding affects us. Narendra is right when he talks of enormous energy but this enormous energy can take us to many-many different directions and some of these tracks, some of these dangers that this energy can finally be used far. That we can ....... the very agents, we can be the victims of something larger. I hope you understand what I am trying to convey. Thank You very much.

Speaker 2: My name is Rakesh Manchanda. I wish to first of all express myself in the sense that this idea which is certainly water shedding now in a huge-huge global canvass fortunately for us in India, when I was 10-12 years old, when these kind of ideas used to come I was been pushed back by the society, OK being crazy, being mad. This time I go back I should be happy that I am not alone whose crazy or whose mad I am showing the dreams that this world can change then I am very serious about, there should be a clear cut strategy at the socialist international level in a sense advocated by Vijay Pratap ji and Subhash on 20th, also Co-ordinating, brainstorming of socialist responsibility for weakening of democracy 5 to 8 pm. So there we were again and again reminded of our cultural values, preservation of cultural values and also the process about reaching to the last proletariat, so I feel because they are certain unsquare, this meeting has expressed themselves that croaning on that one target, target of anti-Bush and this process of galient way of going. So what I want to share with you is that what I am feeling is exactly matching with everybody of course this needs more and more interaction, more and more classes, more and more dialogues. To reach this process first of all we have to smash it on and replace it with a new format of say more equal and then move towards the last & last person in the Gandhian movement, because this is essential because we have infront of us the collapse of the Soviet-Union. These kinds of classes, these kinds of workshops where the strategy has to be there so that the people don't feel aloof, one part of the people in this huge fair keep on saying only anti-Bush they are trying to target all their energies on the top of the vertical paranet where one man is sitting and trying to smash it and at the same time we the Gandhians want to move in that fashion, so there has to be some kind of mutual co-operation between the red as well as the green. Then I would like appreciate my friends from Uttarakhand because I share most of the things from him, at the same time I feel from 223 countries and from organisations, hundreds of organisations, one they have been spending I think this is peanuts in comparison to what the 3rd world is trying to purchase and trying to purchase their peace for, I feel different to that at the same time when we as Indians ....... Vishnu thank the family of the Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam to keep all its doors and windows open because even rats and ultra rats we have seen had come over try to express themselves in non-violent ways that means they are hungry and they have the quest for the space, that means we have achieved something, that means we this family of VK as well as WSF have achieved something and this is my solidarity towards everyone. Thank you.

Speaker 3: My name is Mik Cargos. I was first meeting here and I am very happy now I am satisfied with WSF in general, I think the arrangements have been wonderful and it was innovative. Of course now its not meaningful now to only praise so I have one general critical point to make about WSF process and it has to be with information, information within WSF and communication to the outside and I start from my on the left from Orissa who said he's involved with tribals against mining of bauxite and he had expected somehow to find, here in the WSF, the other points of struggle against mining of Bauxite, I know for myself in Ghana and the difficulty of combining or globalising the resistance, well there's one organisation which really is the solution to this problem. There are many who would try to solve it, but there's one general solution to this program and it's called the 'Library'. The Library is trying to provide all information to deliver it to all and to organise it and present it in a way, so that you can precisely find what you like to find and I came here to organise 2 workshops, one workshop about Libraries, we have had here also very good Librarians, for eg. the chair or ifusa the international organisation of librarians but I think the organisers of WSF have not yet understand this point, so we are a little bit ahead of WSF organisers in this respect. Perhaps next time it would be more understood that the WSF has to combine itself with the library and not invent a new library to build all the traditions of library, the public libraries and also ofcourse the internet is a new wonderful library and the library itself is becoming integrated with them, this also has to do with that the Indian friends here have already said about the connection between the tents and the demonstrations, the drums I think we discussed this in our library workshop under the heading - 'the right to memory' because this is actually, the line here goes between the literate culture and the oral culture, this is perhaps a very big simplification but I think there's and what's going to western way is actually the literary way and now taking of the library, this the problem for the library itself to solve and precisely this president of ..................... from Botswana she wanted to be here by the way but she has got the flue and she's leaving today. This is the theme of her's, she's reflecting on how the library can include those peoples, those groups which have no literature, no literacy in the library and it's going to be showed and with a certain limit all these new devices and the information technology to do it so there should be, many have criticised that I am very much in favour of using the most ............. kind of technology and I think that Gandhi was also using technology becausing writing itself was information technology and this is one of the reasons why we have this divided live because many hundreds of millions of people are not included in the use of information technology that is writing and reading. Thanks.

Speaker 4: I have been working in the field of documentary films and theatre and other cultural activities and I've been editing a magazine which is non-periodical and non-commercial. I think this is a great event great building of global protest, better say this event has created not only hopes and dreams of a better world but accelerated the process of globalising the peaple's protest against globalisation of imperialistic attitude. I want to share my two disappointments, first one is regarding the media particularly the mainstream of India, they didn't respond accordingly with this event, second one is that most of the participant's in many seminars and workshops were suppose to come and to participate in the seminars and workshops they did not turn up, even in the banner we have seen 4 or 5, but not more than 5 people were present in the seminar, this should be discouraged and we should take care about these responsibility.

Speaker 5: I am Ramnika Gupta from Ramnika Foundation and All India Tribal Literary Forum, as we were given to understand that we are going to meet like a 'Chaupal', people will come and discuss their things but definitely it's against globalisation, atleast our group know this thing and what we extracted and much of that has been achieved because we could connect tribal groups from Delhi itself, Vagish Jha ji, Vijay pratap ji, Ritu Kothari, myself and other organisations atleast 10-15 organisations of tribals were conducted earlier and they sat together and discussed the issues, what has to be discussed there, so those very issues were discussed atleast at the tribal level, that's what I feel and we were successful in our meeting day before yesterday in that Friends of Earth and Ourselves and other Abhiyan, Judao all those organisations and we were successful in giving a declaration also there from our groups, the tribal groups. Even SAPI was having meeting we were having discussions all over about the same issues sometimes dividing the issues with each other, though much more could be done and many people couldn't come, but we saw to it that all the tribals where ever they were attending those programs if they don't clash with each other, that was the only point we sorted because some programs clashed unfortunately which I think it was something wrong went in deciding the organisational issue it was, there was something wrong in that, that the issues clashed the things clashed it should not have been done because the meeting had already decided in Delhi that they will be doing like this. Secondly, whatever an individual even an organisation (not clear) all the functions there and you can't report about the whole thing whatever so whatever people attend we feet that our people, our groups, the tribal groups whever they attended with us and along with others, they felt yes there can be a second world there can be, another world they felt that. How to achieve it they decided within themselves it's we who have to do it, the tribals who have to do it if they want to improve their lot, because tribal representatives are very few here, that's what I want to convey, we attended it widely all the meetings and they also felt that tribal democracy is the answer, somhow or other. Tribal democracy is equality, brotherhood and freedom these 3 things are there in tribal democracy so that has to be our alternative. How to achieve it we have to sit together and decide but that we could do something, then another thing the tribal values also, on the very first day we saw Ramdayal Mundaji beating the drum and there was the song 'Mast Mast' I think you must have heard that, some of us felt somehow or the other this culture 'Mast Mast' in the present form is like jettisan, the 'mast mast' in the original form is different what other's say. So, this jettison (or Jetson) type of things somehow or the other we could not solve. That is what we felt that we could not follow that Jetson type of things that's the difference in the culture. lastly, I will like to say, we knew we have to ....... we met at the global level to fight against globalisation I means that's the contradiction as you said because we have to collect the answers globally to fight this globalisation then only, as Vajpayeeji said in the other phase there will be a plural world, I mean 'Bahut anek duniya hogi', 'anek duniya mein bhi ek disha hogi', 'ek connection hoga' there will be many worlds but connectivity will be present and this world will be different from the present world of Bush and other those 7 nations, that message has gone to the people. How it will be 7 alternative can't be created in one minute or in one meeting that's what I think. You have together now, all these informations what seminars took place, what they said, what they decided and then they try to get many alternatives and then choose one. If you have to give alternative we have discussed it that alternative will come automatically it can't be decided in one day what will be the alternative because there are many works who are sitting here discussing here, many people in their own way are trying to put Gandhi's world, socialist world, communist world. I mean there were many dreams and we have to assimilate these dreams and they there are Dalit dreams, there are tribal dreams. Dalits could also reach whatever say they could reach one understanding tribals could reach one understanding. I don't know whether others reached this or not but somehow or the other those who were considered most reached were understanding and those who were considered most forward they didn't reach, they still defend, sorry to say that.

Speaker 6: Ganga Sahay meena I spoke in hindi, studies in JNU is from Rajasthan, has come with Ramnika Foundation.

[Translation by someone] :- He has his interest in Literature, so he was saying he has visited many exhibitions and book stores and he found that prices of the books were very costly and he could not make the difference between the another world and ....... world, so he says even the food stalls were as costly as outside and may be much more and then he said we were able to share and it's good that many people come and bet and the other point he raised was that sometimes we go to such a ................... that a person belongs to such a such community can't be good for example, he said a Dalit only only can right about the pain of the Dalit a Brahmin can't right about them. So, this kind of thing can't be there because a Brahmin can also feel, an American can also feel the pain of the third world. So, he wanted to make this kind of point there. The other thing he said good, about is that the meetings which were held in the tribal tents, the tribals were able to speak their own dialect.

Speaker 7: [Swatantra Mishra] [In Hindi] Hindi Journalist.

Translated as : - He's trying to prove that the people from the different continents have come and he has time to share with them and he also mentions that we have to focus our fight towards imperialism, imperialism is a larger thing than just focusing on a person like Bush or Blair so fight has to be focused on imperialism as a system not as an individual.

Speaker 8: First of all I must congratulate and salute a large number of volunteers who have come to Mumbai, much-much ahead of this event may be months together and they have put up themselves working hard 20 hours a day in WSF office in Bhuvesh Gupta Bhawan, and of the representatives here is here and he was dealing so I must salute people like him who have made it a success, but for me it's a kind of a cornival or a big jamboree. And there's a lack of seriousness and even if you look at the city of Mumbai is having hundred million people and these people are also suffering for the last 10 or 15 years of the bad impact of globalisation, but did we see any participation from them, none. There was no attempt from the part of IOC to include people from India so the real Indians were missing from this IOC or this WSF there was no seriousness attempt to bring the real issues. The issues, the 5 issues which were felt against whom ? Patriarchy, at fine patriarchy is there and we have to fight we have to fight within the society but not the structure. We have the issue of war, peace against whom ? from our national government not the international structures, we have done the camp of this communalism, casteism, racism against with whom ? So, we are not fighting actually it's the people responsible for the havoc which is created. So, it was never focused and this kind of thing will not be focused. It's a jaboree, people can dance on the streets, you are just showcasing some tribals which even the complist system do, they'll bring some tribals, they'll decor them, they'll just have drum beats and things like that and whenever people talk about incursion, but this is the most exclusive process I do not ............. the open space which is ........... because I know people like these forum workers, we have these forum workers who have been fighting for their livelihood all over India and they have international network as well but they have some problem, is that 'Panga' where Sunderban delta is solved to some width capitalist in India and these poor farmers were fighting for their survival but this forum was captured or hold by somebody else authoritarian communists. So, they didn't allow these people to even allow the event to hold their discussions, so these people were left out. But as they say, likewise also there were other Gandhians and ........................................ we are fighting against imperialism we are hold this jamboree or carnival in India where a government in exile from Tibetan is very much exist in last 40 or 50 years, we have the most, one of the most proportional of peace and fighting through the peaceful means against imperialism is Dalai Lama, nobody thought of inviting him to the conclusion or inauguration or to any respectable place. Despite we have been talking and ridiculous in IOC...... The other point is the members of the IOC or the organisers they have nothing to do with the real struggle or the people and this can reflect. When they were planning and chalking out there was nothing Indian in it. One of the biggest issue is water, isn't it globally ? So, in the forum we are selling water in India this always a tradition water is not a commodity, it can't be sold. But it was sold, despite we have put objection and it casted only Rs.5-7. I have put them in record in IOC, you just spend Rs.5000, put 5000 plastic glasses re-usable, in locations people can drink freely. But deliberately when water is required during the lunch the tents were off, so you had to purchase a bottle for Rs.15. So all these things were there, so when we are fighting about consumerism these people have no idea what consumerism is, this is alternative made of plastic most eco-friendly things. Like the banners all made of plastic so, there's no clarity what alternative we know, this is also block, so I am just trying to make a point, with the people if they have any seriousness then they should think together.

Speaker 9: I am P.J. Suri from Socialist Front and Janata D.......................... I was one of the organisers in the preparatory committee of the Asian Social Forum last year in Hyderabad. So, Congrats ! it was really a great achievement because I had been in the youth festival in Moscow which was arranged and organised by government and so many agencies there was not this much success, but all this success for what ? Unity for whom? We are righting for the last man, the last man is a slane negro, a Dalit untouchable is the last man in India for him our unity should be there, even the capitalist have unity to loot but we are unable to focus that point because our NGO's are so strong they are so highly funded, they are always worried about their accounts, spendings, audit problems and all, they are doing a very good pop and show, where we've involved almost 95 paid workers but they had some enthusiasm they were very active very emotional but the commitment and conviction was missing because in a political party we have an ideology we have a conviction and a commitment in the process you may be corrupt or you may be favouritism or recodism and all that but conviction and commitment will remain it's heart and stomach that is worth. But that commitment and conviction of an ideology is must, so we have to globalise the suffering as Abraham Lincoln fought for the slaves as Gandhiji fought for the untouchables we have to globalise these people, globalisation against this globalisation. So, what I feel is, after all we are the people we have to summarise, we have to propagate this and one such thing is that we have 93% unorganised workers in our country, but for them there are so much firms we couldn't communicate them so had they come here it would have been a big achievement for the local, so I request afterall we are the people who are going to plan our own organisations, we'll be gaining for the next WSF wherever it's with a ringer lot. So, ultimately we all will decide below our organisations so whatever the wrongs, the achievement this is a part of us, we are a part in it, we are a party to it. We can't include from it so I feel going to one place is a very costlier affair it's physically impossible as well. So regional, zonal, and divisional, national, continental wise WSF's will be more effective and will be able to concentrate on problems on which what is our subject and what we are fighting that we have to concentrate on and ultimately this is we, we are going to see the success of WSF and failures, for failures we all sitting here will be responsible, we through our orgaisationl; should work for it.

Speaker 10: [Chandrashekhar from Bihar, spoke in Hindi]

Translation in English : He said while he was coming from Bihar, there were 350 delegates and they were discussing what would be the objectives of the WSF ? And he says since morning he's interacting with the same kind of people, those who were returning, so they have told that they are returning with much energy and hope and they also said they could make their point from international forum otherwise they had no space even to express their views at local and district levels. So this also gave them the chance to have network, many also said that they have returned with a good sense and after exchanging views, then he counts about the media, the media you should not be bothered about even during Gandhi's movement media was always critical and apposed to Gandhi, so we shouldn't much batter about the Media.

Speaker 11: [Sadaram Sharma, in Hindi] [From Badli gaon, Delhi, 75 years old]

Translation in English by another speaker : He says, Indian friends and foreign delegates welcome to India. He says I am 75 years old by now and this is my third time I am taking part, I also took part in the independence struggle (not clear). After independence our lands were snatched on the name of development through the so-called democratic process -- (not clear). Even the supreme court was unable to give us justice and ....... some compensation. (Not clear)......... he says he has not come here to see how Mumbai city looks like or how it's beaches are. What would be the flag of this struggle ? What would be the slogan ? When will this new struggle provide food for the hungry ? literacy to the illiterate, land to the landless and what will be the slogan for this new world order ?

Speaker 12: (In Hindi)

Translation in English by another speaker: he says that before attending this forum he was under the impression that disparity and discrimination only exists in India, but after attending a friends forum he has come to know that the situation is as bad as in India, there also disparity and discrimination exists. And the other thing he says that many people who have attended this forum - organisation he has interacted with them so they are unable to express what are their objectives of the organisation, why they have come here and the other thing he has mentioned is about the disabled, among the disabled there's a discrimination, there's a poor disabled there's an elite disabled. So, elite disabled get all the benefits and the poor is just begging on the roads and the third and the last point he wants to say, that a kind of elections the democracy Iraq was or the attack on Iraq was also shown by Saddam where he got 90% votes but Bush didn't accept this and Bush have created a havoc and still many children and adults in Iraq and Afghanistan in ........ fora the world leadership is going to bring him under (not clear) they are talking about having a case or tribal against Saddam but who is going to bring to the Bush. And he also said that after they captured Bush the most inhuman behaviour was done to him and where they are doing all kinds of stupid things to him and its all on television all over the world but the sensibilities of the world and the movement and the organisations which talk about human rights have not expressed anything in a much substantial way. Thank you.

Speaker 13: I am Ankush Samar, I am a teacher of the University of Bombay. See I am not exactly part to I am heading a NGO called Centre for International Strategic and Development Studies, my NGO is purely academic so my NGO is not part of this, attended as an individual 3 days their seminar this WSF meeting and whatever little local newspapers have written I will just report on that 1 or 2 points, but before that I must congratulate organisers not just for the sake of congratulation but really (not clear) ..... it's possible that they will drawback their hypocrisy and all that but efforts of your people are only for this authors of ........ and authors of WTO to talk about atleast woman based sub-global editors, so they themselves were talking about human globalisation that is because of you people's I think contribution the pressure you people are putting. An actor one's said that ideals in politics are never realised but pursuits of them determined history. So whatever ideals you are pursuing I think this will be the future history what you are doing I think it will not go waste it's job you are doing very well and that will really shape the extreme future. On the basis of my ....... I will just make 2 or 3 comments which are critical but they are really not critical I am only telling you what are the people of Bombay are feeling and it's reflected. First is that Bombay people have many have said that here 75,000 people have come and they have made no impact on the city. Absolutely, Bombay is not stirred by this event I don't know what is the reason but somewhere we have to introspect what exactly, why is Bombay not stirred with 75,000 people. Second point what they are saying people have reported local newspapers that what we find in this WSF many young faces are there I find here except me or 2 all are young people here but Bombay college teachers and students are not represented properly so, we couldn't reach Bombay college students, teachers that is another criticism in level. Third, already somebody has mentioned foodstalls, I think really they were unnecessarily costly I don't know why this has happened ? And last point people are asking that of course we have to answer somewhere, what is ultimately result of this, what is it going to result ? So, these of the 3 points I am going to take ...... if you people permit me, just 2 minutes. Creating awareness is really important, what we could have throughout done is creating awareness about whole our part unfortunately we couldn't do it. I will tell you one example I don't know how many of you faced this problem but I think our rickshaw driver and taxi over charge our foreign delegates, I called some of them look why are you overcharging them? What we should have done, I tell you bath the taxis and rickshaws in Bombay are controlled by this group only socialist and other people if you would have given a small booklet to these taxi drivers, rickshaw drivers that such and such thing is going to happen and such delegates will come and please treat them properly they are doing our own job, I think you could have reached 1000's of taxi drivers, simple one letter would have been sufficient. But I think sometimes it's really difficult not possible at times. Second, the only thing people are asking another point, OK I am with you, I am convinced with your job, but tell me what am I supposed to do, you give me some programs what I am supposed to do, atleast debateers are saying that you right a letter to United Nations Secretary-General. So please are asking that what programs are you giving we must think of some programs and must give 1, 2 these are the programs. Thank you.

Speaker 14: [S.N. Madan from Patna, Bihar. In Hindi]

Translation in English by another speaker :- The major issues he raised is that about two major things. One, there's no significant debate on the use of technology without debating on the use of technology you can't think about an alternative would. That's what he has said. The other thing he has raised that there were lots of slogan shouting against imperialism, but there's not enough slogan shouting against capitalism. The third thing he said, he felt bad about the police present inside the campus, he said it was unnecessary because the atmosphere was so good it was a solidarity kind of meeting so police should not be allowed inside and he agrees with that he felt bad about the selling of water and the non-involvement of the local population and things like that. And apart of this he said there's lot of feel good factor also lots of young people have come along with him from Bihar but when they are returning they are feeling a sense of rejunivation and they say this is far them that they also start feeling related to the international movement before that they had no idea that whether they are part of some international movement against globalisation. So, this is one positive thing that he has felt has happened.

Speaker 15: My dear WSF's Participants. Myname is Mr. Govan, Marine Chief Engineer Food trouble enters world, I've travelled more than 194 countries, my age is about 56, I work in the Indian Navy where I work in Merchant Navy I was earning very good. I am happy to see everyone here people have come from all over the world, from 1966 to 1995 I kept on working so I am happy to see everybody, now people are Indians to grab the opportunity to meet everybody under one place, I want to say one thing I come from highly intellectual forum plus unorganised worker sectors, SC/ST/OBC and OC, in India many people doesn't want to work not only in India all over the world, when you work you ever see when you are going for a work, activities are more in action, people in college they only give talks, words and action but they don't can ..... action. What we need at this stage is very simple all the young and energetic people, like you people who are highly experienced all must get together to work out things for the national and international level. Now we get love and peace, now we get the real affection because the world is so small, the world is only one small family may be very big family very huge family, we are one and the same we should not have any more language barrier. I am Tamilian he is that type we should never talk about inability we must say what we can do. What is my capacity, always keep telling about that firstly always go for the feature course of actions. We don't want any more professors, lecturers the NGO's can create a new world because they are not only intelligent they come voluntarily to do the service. I also come voluntarily to participate in this one but nobody has called me with a hope, please come forward, some thing when I joined the Navy I saw the board - Jain the Navy and see the world, so I joined the Navy without spending any money I could go all over the world, this is very simple. You get yourself experienced there's a football premises, volleyball premises, there's a cricket premises. The Social Forum is now formed here so although we farmed last year the Asian Social Forum I also participated in Hyderabad the date being 2^nd - 6^th January. Now we had a golden opportunity especially from the date of 16^th - 21^st of that only four days the thousands of seminars were conducted and how many of you really made use of it, because in India many people........ even though they have studied they do not know what they are actually, practically inside. now what we need is a bore educate to our own people and the interest level, we must came closer to understand more about love and affection and the technology. Now we can create a real world by only love and affection only with affection we can do everything. But instead of revenge giving facility energy thing is possible.

Speaker 16: Myself Dr. Rani Kumar I am from Delhi, working politics and social activities and I am first time attending this thing. What I learned in this WSF is most of the people here have got the signs and symptoms of the human crisis, social crisis but they didn't investigate the problem scientifically. See, without scientific investigation you can't diagnose the disease. Even the capitalist laws talks about the social human crisis, society crisis but they don't want to investigate the proglem scientifically the same way we are doing it. So without proper scientific investigation and we can't diagnose the disease and we can't give the treatment, so, so far what I felt I think the negative attitude is more than was to development you have consecuted. We want to have a scientific investigation to do the scientific investigation we should be a scientific investigator we should be a scientific investigator we should plan ourselves how to investigate problems social, political, economical problems then only we'll be able to give the right diagnosis to solve that. I hope that in future the WSF diagnose the disease, investigate the problem scientifically and diagnose and give a proper treatment. I hope so.

Speaker 17: (In Hindi)

Translation : he said that he is participating for the first time in such a forum and there may be some false and some good things about it. But, he says, the good thing he learned is that the people world over are fighting against the system, that's the good thing he has felt about the other point he says is that, after assembling of 7-8 days we don't know the concrete action and what we are going to go from here.

Speaker 18: Friends, I am Suresh Nautiyal I am a journalist and right now I am associated with Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam, India. I fully absolutely agree with Atal Bihari Sharma shoul make a few more points, I have some reservations about the whole WSF process and because it should be held in a more cohesive manner, transparency has to be brought in doubts still exist in the minds of the common people and we must talk to the resistance group and hold future forum collectively on the basis of minimum agreed programs only then we can make another world possible and direct political participation is also necessary. Thank you very much.

Speaker 19: I am Rajendra Dhasmana I have been a media person for a long time and left the service when I was the chief writer of the collective works of Mahatma Gandhi. This time I am the chair person of the people's Union for Civil Liberties in Uttarakhand. Here I have come to represent Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam and Uttarakhand Chaupal, I've was in Hyderabad also last time and I was happy that time also and this time also. I am very satisfied that if our family our old concept very ancient concept of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam become such a larger in a year or two and if this family become larger and larger then the other world is possible like this. It's that the assembly of so many like thinking persons will make that family a bigger family and that will be our other world. In this WSF program here in Mumbai, one or two things wanted to speak is the small-small seminars I spoke in only seven seminars and workshops I had come to participate in that, but I think most of the national press and media were not concerned at all with the small seminars and workshops they never attended it even the press organised by VK itself did not reflect the objective behind it and the paper which was published by them was not covering those items but I found that most of the things were discussed very nicely in small seminars and because there were 350 seminars in a day one could not attend most of them, so there must be some process of bringing them together in future so that we can have a grim subject. Secondly, in the bigger halls there were acoustic problems the people sitting behind could not listen the speaker very well so this could have been rectified well in advance and the problem of dust and mud was also present it could have been done very nicely but they could have perceived it earlier for this. So, far as the media is concerned for the coverage of WSF in Mumbai you cannot expect anything from our media, a media is pro-globalisation, media can't cover the real events, it's serving it's viewers, it's readers spicy things not the events, they couldn't cover it at all, they were discussing the things which were not necessary at all highlighting very small things in a very different way distorting the whole message, this was the motive behind and it's always been but the city also except the local organisers of Mumbai the other citizens were very indifferent, I telephoned so many friends in Mumbai but they didn't turn up, they were so busy in their affairs, they didn't think something very important was going on, so, these things should be taken care of in future and I am very hopeful we will be able to do something very concrete.

Speaker 20: My name is Khurshid Imam, I am associated with Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam, Delhi. This was my first time and I would be very brief because i know the pressure on the organisers. As daridranarayan of this meeting I think by the time my turn comes everything is all said whatever i wanted to say but just to underline a couple of things that the problem the criticism was mostly on the organisational level as I felt, more commodities could have been used, somebody used the turn to close and it was really loose the programs distributed and organised were very loose it should be accommodated in that case I would like to put a point that when we are thinking about bringing WSF to more regional level I would suggest that it can be more issue based than region based, say WSF water, WSF environment and those things come down to bottom then there we can also link people who are focused on a particular issue from global to a local level then having a WSF Bihar who can't connect with so many diverse issues that we have to deal with at a time. That's all.

Speaker 20: I am Shiv Dera from Patna, Bihar and I happen to be a Hindi writer and story letter. First of all I like to congratulate the organisers for their imagination and ability to execute. I have had an assessment of very diverse issue, the range of issues, very banding issues, the people are confronting with all over the world. Yet, they should try to focus on some basic issues of alternative development, now we should try apply ourselves to build an alternative model of development which is based on human values and egalitarian socio-economic order, they should try to focus on the scope and uses of the modern technology. literature development is another area which is very important. henceforth, I think that the event was more for a show of solidarity against globalisation and some serious discussion didn't unfortunately attract sizeable audience or participants but I think WSF Mumbai have had been able to introduce itself effectively as an umbrella of global resistance against LPG. Personally I feel they should target policies rather than persons and ofcourse the making of another world starts from ourselves.

Speaker 21: [Introduction not clear] I am first time in India and this is my first social forum and may be I had quite big expectations and that's why I was a bit expectations and that's why I was a bit disappointed because of this event corruptor of Social Forum should not be yearly but may be only every another year that could be quite fine, and also those seminars and workshops which I visited I think it's may be they were much more or less discussions as I actually expected and i think it should be more strategically meetings between those groups working in the same area would be much more important and I think the network what I think was very positive was that I saw with my own eyes that a simple woman, Asian woman were building networks after the seminars but these were more of informal discussions that face to face discussions which were more than efficient in the real political sense I think so. Also I think that because this organisation is organising the whole thing it's a really big thing and the people who are doing it need a lot of energy and I think they could also use this energy in something else if it would be like only after every other year like also taking care of the network with which they are working, but anyway as I said I have mined feelings but I think the possibility is that they may be in the front when I go back to Finland.

Speaker 22: [Vikram Singh from Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam, Delhi (in Hindi)

Translation by another speaker :- He says he blindly agrees with his friend from Rajasthan, that education is most essential tool to understand exploitation and other thing, apart from food, cloth and housing, education and employment should also be felt as a human right and the global fight should be around these five points atleast.

Speaker 23: [In Hindi]

Translation by another speaker :- he said that though we oppose to this Coca-Cola Pepsi-Cola, McDowell and things like that, but we found all over the place where the stalls were put up and Lipton, Pepsi and Nestle were being sold in various stalls and the locally produced small hawker is being driven out by the police from the campus and they have refused them to allow to sell their product.

Speaker 24 : [Kundal Chauhan from South Asia Study Centre, Delhi, in Hindi]

Translation by another speaker :- What he said was that there were diverse views which were discussed here but there was lack integration between the culture groups, drum beaters and the several seminars going on. he said this is started that there are several seminars going on simultaneously on the same subject, so the time it's needed now we must integrate it in all lends and camp up with something concrete united and concrete way.

Speaker 25: I am Vaghish Jha and I am an independent researcher and communicator and here I stand before you as the member of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam. India. I have seven crisp sentences to say about it, three sentences about my impression of WSF. I feel that a dreamless world silenced into submission, a collective cacophony itself is a very liberating and spiritual experience. The constructing an alternative ideology of collective liberation is a process and rather an event and third sentence draws from the empty seminar rooms and very crowded streets also have a very silver lining for me is that the ideology of struggles are mode on the fields and in the streets rather than in the seminar halls and there's something to be listened to and understood. And apart from the fact that this was an event where agricultural won and our priests failed. The priests who had organised it, I wouldn't go into elaboration. Three suggestions which could be taken as a criticism which has not come from anybody I agree with many of the points without repeating them. One is that for the next WSF if I am making sense to anybody who can take my words to them is that please, please of you want vigil should be consolidated organised systematically, 69 events were taking place any for the Adivasi and indigenous people, some issues different people, it is a theorised conglomeration of people talking of each other destining to their own views, so if you want to create a dialogue then how consolidation or vision and therefore, this has to be therefrom the beginning that you have the segmentation of the issues, whatever issues you that would be the broad categories of the issues and two is that please have next WSF in a village where all the people all the participants stay together in one place, this takes care of somebody else comes and you want to speak to them, talk to them, night is there you can sit down and talk about it. And the most important thing it takes care of a very consumerist and urban understanding of creating infrastructure for an event and losing it furthermore, the money that has been spent in organising this WSF Mumbai had it been done in a village it would have provided permanent infrascture for 10 villages atleast, if I may so that where they could have got water and toilet and everything freely and tomorrow no water, no toilet is there so if you want another WSF please have it in some village where you can leave a lasting....... you can bequeath your legacy to those villages they will remember that WSF was a great event. Thank you.

Speaker 26: My name is Subhash Lomte. I ama member of organising committee but now though I am a coacher I will give the responsibility of presentation. On behalf of coacher Lini present, but as a organising committee member I accept and appreciate all the positive and negative comments, definitely there are certain shortcoming in providing the facility to all the participants and organising the event. But at the same time I wanted to say specifically many of the comments uttered here are due to the lack of understanding of the charter, principle of WSF. This I must say because I definitely say that WSF has certain ideology because MR-2004 has some different views of the WSF that's why they organise their own event. I am associated with the process since last 2 years with this WSF and I think WSF as its own unit think that WSF is not giving direction as a WSF but it's an open space it invites all the social movements, movements of workers, women, NGOs who ever is working for the benefit of people and the responsibility of those organisation of discussing, interacting with them and formulating and decide the action plan and after decisions supposed to go to the respective countries and their fields and act this is the unique thing which I feel a different from other organisations, we have our own lifestyles we want directions, we want readymade actions, plans, we want readymade program but WSF says that we won't give we have 4-5 points but everybody is welcomed who are against imperialistic globalisation, who are against militarism and war, who are against patriarchy, who are against communalism, who are against casteism. i think it's ideology and it includes, it's a process of inclusion, against this is a global event. WSF is not for organising events only it's a process and for that I can set my own example I have organised a seminar on the impact of globalisation on agriculture workers and rural poor, representatives from 5-6 countries were there they spoke and representations from 78 states from my country were there. When we have decided and we came out with a certain concrete declaration for the agriculture workers and rural poor, again here WSF says that we will circulate your decision and whatever program you have decided, throughout the world, throughout the globe and we have to work for that. And still there may be some drawbacks but these are all those things are out, we have to sort out everything and march ahead and we have to make these events a process, global event-global process, continental event - continental process, national event - national process, state, district and even in a village, city town, event and process in this just like in India people believe in Marx's ideology, Gandhian ideology, Ambedkar ideology, socialists ideology they have come for the first time in a huge number in one umbrella. There are problems working together everybody wants to highlight their own agenda I think upto certain extent that will be ........ but if somebody wants to push their own things the process wouldn't go ahead and I think this limitation is being known to everybody and this is the success of this WSF process I don't want to go in detail but once again I congratulate all of you to be part of this reflective and evaluation program. I will now request Lini to present.

Speaker 27: Right now these forum workers have signed a charter, why they have been excluded. National fees forum workers why have denied an event in this forum?

Speaker 28: I know about what Atalji is, and this should be the last question because we are not here to question.

Speaker 29: The organising committee need to think about some more issues, I saw the presence of neo fascist groups also within the exhibition area that was Anandamargi's and this, I mean what kind of event are we trying to create. These are some of the things we must take care of.

Speaker 30: I may not be able to answer all the questions, but first which Atal Bihari Sharma have raised. I know the use of ...................since last two years because when there was invitation from India for WSF and we had organised a small meeting in Peurto-Pico in which Tom Kuchari was himself present and he was opposing to hold this WSF in India and I think he is very much consistent and that's why he himself and his organisation has opted to hold a program outside WSF, but there may be certain other under currents to the issue but I think this is not the place to discuss all those things. Thank you all once again.

Speaker 31: My name is Lena R.................... I am from the Network Institution for global democratisation, Nigeria. One of the organisers also. I am trying to very briefly wind up what is being said here today.

Speaker 1: How WSF should be a space an open space ? At the same time we should be able to produce a political outcome and then after a proposal come up with formal and informal semi-permanent network and who could operate WSF process, they could be done variously. Even the networks which are able to workout the scenario, the alternatives, the do's, the dont's. I think in future its going to be much fever and fever coming around, hanging around in the WSF and it should be more and more people who are committed to, either organise romething or who are members of connectivity networks and know that these networks are going to meet at this place and they have a sort of agenda they want to promote in this event. But on the other hand we have to remember...........(not clear) only started in 2001 and there are some large part of the world especially in South-East Asia and Southern Africa people have not heard of WSF. So we still need to do also the mobalisation work and second point was this, I think most of us were quite impressed atleast we who come from Europe about the popular mobalisation of this Mumbai event, that there were so many Dalit groups Adivasi, Tribals, sexual workers. Although the so called groups were mining from my experience it was very well organised by the Trade unions and local and internatinal NGOs in the movement or political parties but sort of grassroots of America are missing there and well, the important point was that how do we in future reach the people who come in the workshops and make notes and comments and these are the way of political expressions that we know. Other's were saying there was confusion on the basis, they wouldn't know why they were here, other's who said some of the groups were very well prepared and they were into discussion and analyse and come up with networks. The third point was that to whom we discussed with ? and who we should invite here ? there was a comment that they saw some Mumbai resident people and there were their opinion, that, yes these are the people we should actually invite and these are the people we should discuss with. There was one comment in one of the representatives, one lady said she has seen a lot of inspiration but very little transformation, with whom we should actually try to ....... but then again there were comments may be WSF is not a great place, to do that we have to first discuss among ourselves even though WSF we also try to define ourselves also we do disagree on many things but first we should discuss among ourselves and think it's important that mumbai residents. They tried to communicate, they came to WSF, they gave demonstrations, so actually it was same way trying to say something and reach out to WSF too. Then there were issues on practicalities I mean I think it was all and all a great sources from that point of view but there we issues, that may become critical you have to be very careful with practical issues that might mere ...........somebody said that the food stalls should be more hygienic and that drinking water should be available, there is a wake up paper and there's ................................ these kind of issues, but may be the most important right - you can hear what you want to hear and you can say what you want to say. And sixth point was the issue of democracy of WSF, how can we be ourselves more democratic. I have to advertise the workshop we did with the NT TV with the institute, organised 300 people into working groups so that everybody could say something, but one of the most critical rule was equal share of time and that was quite respected and it was quite successful. Of course there's the international council for example. There was one workshop concentrated on ............................... they were saying that we have to come up with, we have to use our imagination, we are not representing in a sense we are not elected by anybody so it can be kind of may be democratic but it has to be very clear and very transparent so that we know with international council that when the next meeting is, what we are going to discuss about, minutes available since there are some minimum ways of influencing also that's high level of forum and last is the issue of global politics and how the Mumbai city like in Puerto Pico the city itself is very much committed to the process and it was here that may be the Mumbai city was not so much aware of this event and there was a practical proposal to distribute the booklet on this event to the Rickshaw driver for example, I was not tried to overcharge but I spoke to one of the rickshaw driver who said, it's not going to be a Shivsena rally because there are so many people here gathered. But they right being about the meeting. We heard from one of the organising member, member of the organising committee, I mean men of the one of the workshops that it's a lot of local politics behind also in Brazil and also have in India there are certain political parties which are involved, there's lot of internal conflicts and competitions and it would be interesting for the rest of us to know a little bit about the spectrum and which are the groupings behind so that start every forum as a sort of an event of global politics of the WSF. Sorry, i missed the point of organising the regional event every year or every third year with the WSF, which is a very interesting proposal. I am sure I couldn't catch everything all your rich comments made but I am sure if you feel that somehow you are not in the type of VK, please approach some of the VK Co-members so that your conducti..............known under the discussion can continue.

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